By Gene Beresin, Executive Director and Khadijah Booth Watkins, Associate Director

Posted in: Multimedia, Podcast

Topics: Hot Topics

Thanksgiving is approaching fast; a time of gratitude, reflection, and gathering. But this year feels different. With fear, anger, and uncertainty dominating our world, it’s hard to ask: How are we supposed to give thanks right now?

In this holiday episode of Shrinking it Down: Mental Health Made Simple, Gene and Khadijah discuss the importance of staying grateful when the world feels chaotic. They talk about the benefits of gratitude on well-being and resilience and the importance of community, learning from the past, and respecting different viewpoints. Tune in for strategies to help your family build gratitude this holiday season through open conversations, stories, and creative expression!

Media List

• Illuminated Collage (MGH Clay Center)
• Conflict Resolution Course (MGH Clay Center)
• The Art of Civil Conversations: 9 Parent Strategies (MGH Clay Center)
• Five Parenting Tips for Civility and Coping With the Political Climate (MGH Clay Center)

Transcript

SPEAKERS: Gene Beresin, MD, MA; Khadijah Booth Watkins, MD, MPH;

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS]

Gene 00:28

Welcome Back to Shrinking it Down: Mental Health Made Simple. I’m Gene Beresin

Khadijah 00:32

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins.

Gene 00:34

We’re two child and adolescent psychiatrists at the Clay Center for Young, Healthy Minds at the Massachusetts General Hospital,

Khadijah 00:42

and Thanksgiving is almost here again. Time flies when you’re having fun, but it’s that time of the year that we gather, we give thanks, we reflect on what we’re grateful for. But you know, this year for many of us, gratitude doesn’t come so easily. It’s harder for us. I feel like to connect with that space of gratitude this year.

Gene 01:02

Yeah, I think so too. So, we’re really living through times that are ruled by fear, anger and uncertainty. Now, as we say at Passover, why is this night different from all other nights? Now, I was raised a secular Jew and but now I would say, how is this Thanksgiving different than other Thanksgivings, or at least one in recent memory? And most would say, well, we’re living in a time ruled by fear, rage, hate, feelings of displacement and Frank lawlessness. So, there are images of people of color targeted and brutalized in the streets, children stripped from their parents, LGBTQ and particularly trans, individuals facing profound discrimination. Vaccine that saved millions of lives dashed with misinformation and undercut along with threats to state and federal health care that may be lost or unaffordable, the undermining of free speech and a free press invasion of our cities with military our national leaders thriving on revenge and retribution for perceived harm and more, much more, and now we gather together to give thanks. Khadija, how can we possibly be grateful at a time like this.

Khadijah 02:32

and that is, I think, what we’ll talk about today. Because for some groups, what you described makes this year different from others, but some, for some groups that’s a lot of the same, like it, not much has changed. And so how what we’re going to talk about today is, how do we find and maintain gratitude, especially when times are difficult, such as this. And I think we should start from just really talking about, what gratitude? What is gratitude? What is gratitude? What does it mean? Why is it so important? And how can we still feel it and express it during the holiday season, again, in the midst of such difficult, turbulent times?

Gene 03:14

So yeah, go ahead. Sorry. I was gonna say, well maybe,

Khadijah 03:19

why don’t we start at the very basics, like, what? What is gratitude? And why is it important? I’ll toss that over to you.

Gene 03:27

Okay, so you know a psychologist, Emmons, among others, draw from Marty Seligman’s Positive Psychology and affirming that that a positive psychology is what he calls perma positive emotion, engagement, relationships, meaning and accomplishments, and they’re the foundations in this model of happiness, resilience and well-being. And Emmons posits that arc amplifies rescues and connects is a model for explaining how gratitude leads to happiness and resilience. So, what are these? What do these stand for? It amplifies the volume of good in our lives. It rescues us by combating the negativity in our lives, you know, from the news headlines or internal thoughts and it connects us together by strengthening relationships with one another. So, gratitude is in this in this framework, right? It’s extremely helpful in healing, and it helps us understand how we can potentially endure and overcome suffering. Because gratitude gives us an alternate perspective in our lives that helps us overcome, well, two major things, I’d say, loss and trauma.

Khadijah 04:53

So, in the times in which we’re currently living, in times of trouble like this, in. Today, how do we maintain gratitude? Do we Do we have any tips or strategies that we want to share with families or young people that can help them again, identify and hold on and maintain gratitude?

Gene 05:18

Well, I’d start by saying, nothing’s perfect. And of these tips that I think you and I would offer the listeners, you got to try them out, and if they don’t work, try something else. But you know, I mean, if you don’t succeed, try again. Okay, so as we always say that from the Clay Center, start with conversations. You know, at Thanksgiving dinner, go around the table and each person say what the barrier is, what their barriers are for expressing gratitude. And what do we have in common? We have common barriers, but also, what are the differences that we have in terms of our obstacles, and I would try to listen, put myself in other people’s shoes, and wonder how we can overcome those barriers, and from that a second tip is breaking the chains. So then, how we how can the barriers such as fear, anger and demoralization be overcome and again, this is a conversation. Another tip, and this, I think, often helps in times of loss or hardship, is sharing family narratives. I mean, all of us around the table and every table have had losses, traumas, obstacles. So, I would tell and listen to stories about overcoming barriers and challenges to get into a better place. You know, such like my mother used to talk about the Great Depression. And the kids would always say, hey, Grandma, tell us about that great depression. You know, when she would be playing, she was a concert pianist and would be just playing in department stores for change. You know, I would talk about the 60s, about civil rights, about the war in Vietnam, about women’s liberation or personal barriers, such as folks that have had their homes really messed up by hurricanes. Another tip is, is to divert and unite. So could we as a family, community, group, you know, classes, school, whomever you’re with, divert our attention from the negative and unite in collective activity so we can share what we have in common, both negative and the hope for positivity. So, what this really is is strengthening ourselves in numbers. I would, I would certainly welcome everybody to use a positive psychology. Now, when Seligman first wrote about perma as I mentioned before, he added four other elements to it, and that’s physical health, a growth mindset, work environment and economic security. So, do you have any of these elements to be grateful for? You know, do you have a job? You know? Do you have a growth mindset? You know, if one is more negative, can you make it positive? What made you most happy this past year, what gave you the most strength? And finally, something that we’ve talked a lot about at the Clay Center, I think, and that’s using Creative Arts. There’s nothing more important for those facing adversity than socially, using music, dance, singing, journaling to express feelings and share this together. You know, the arts have long been a source to lift us up to higher ground and better emotional place. So, what do you think Khadijah, what are some tips that you that you could offer?

Khadijah 09:15

so, so I think similarly to maybe like sharing family narratives is really learning from history like learning from again. You know, we talked about how this year is very different for many people, but there’s groups of people where this year is still a year that’s probably similar to other years where they’ve struggled. They felt powerless. They felt unheard, the minority groups, the marginalized groups, you know, we think about, you know, immigrants, women, LGBTQIA, youth groups who have been severely oppressed, you know, and we think about them in that way. But we also have to think about the strength that comes from these groups, like how. Resilient they are how they have used, you know, their voice, they’ve used music, they’ve used, you know, their platforms, to really advocate. And so, as we think about the groups, and we think about history and again, people who have been marginalized and oppressed, you know, if we also remember to also think about how resilient they are and were. And really, that can, I think, be a place of or strategy to use, to really think about and identify with gratitude and be grateful for those things? That’s one that comes to mind. Another thing I think that we can all stand to do is, you know, shut off the media take takes, takes a media breaks and in that same vein, spend more time together with other people, people that we, you know, connect with, people that we, you know, feel filled up with, and remind ourselves how grateful we are for the people that we do have around us. And again, I think sometimes that might be hard to physically spend time, but I think you know, if we you could do face calls, video calls, calls, phone calls, but really connecting with people in a way that again reminds us how grateful we are for the people around us, for the connections and for that community, I think, similarly, but different. What is that? Edmonds, who you talked spoke about earlier, speaks about making a gratitude visit and thinking about or identifying a person or people in your life that maybe have stood out to you, who have made a significant difference you know in your life, or who you are today, and maybe you’ve never thanked them, or never have thanked them in the way that you feel like really encompasses what all they they’ve done for you. So really taking a moment to express your thanks and your gratitude to that person can also be another way to express gratitude, but also feel grateful again about the people around you, the connections. Other things that we can do come from although we’re talking about what we’re grateful for but thinking about how we can give and giving also kind of helps us remember how grateful we are. So, whether it’s making a contribution or joining a group that has a similar mission and vision that you have, can be another way to again feel gratitude, identify with gratitude, and maintain gratitude. So, we just talked about all these ways that we can be grateful and maintain gratitude. But how does gratitude help us, really?

 

Gene 12:25

It’s a great question. I have lots of them. I know you do well. I think, I think how it helps is that it helps us with adversity, it helps us look we always talk about relationships and how important they are. I think the most important thing is, is feeling connected to others, because that releases oxytocin in the brain and it helps us feel closer. So, there’s a biological basis for it, but there are other vehicles for it. And you know, when you were talking about learning from folks who were oppressed, I think of, for example, African Americans. I mean, you know, they’ve gotten through slavery, through incredible oppression in this country and generated through both your faith in God and spirituality, but some of the some truly American music. So as a musician, I you know the creation of blues, of gospel, of jazz, of hip hop, of rap. You know this, this is a derivative of it both derives from helping them stay together, and it also, you know, raises, raises folks to higher ground. So whatever we can do together, whether it’s the illuminated collage which we have on our website, or whether it’s, you know, using creative arts and singing, or whether it’s kind of thinking about what these oppressed groups have brought to us, all of us, to transform us and connect us. I think that’s that that helps a lot. But, you know, let me ask you this in these times where misinformation and volatility are everywhere in the media, how do we rise above that and get in touch with the feelings of gratitude? I mean, I listen to the news. I’m a news junkie, and I scream at the television. My animals run away, my family, my family runs away. I scream at football games, and I scream sports, and I scream at the news, but, But? But? How do we rise above the media, which is filled with all kinds of volatile the.

Khadijah 15:00

Material, you know, I think, you know, we do have to stay informed, and I think that there are opportunities for us to disengage in a way that kind of allows us to again focus on the things that we have control over and that we can change. Part of it again is reconnecting also, it is also kind of doing your own. Sometimes it requires you doing your own kind of research and your own reading outside of what is kind of shared with you. You know this, over this weekend, I visited the Whitney plantation in Louisiana, and I think again, talking about how people have overcome so tremendously, and really learning about that piece of history, and again, reminding myself how resilient the people were to be able to rise from all of that and make a way. I think it really comes down to choosing it’s in some in some regards, you know, almost like how you change your perspective, but choosing to focus on gratitude, choosing to focus on the things that are going positive and going well, choosing to focus on the things that you can change and where you can have an impact, is one way to try to strike that balance between all of the misinformation and volatility and just high levels of emotion that we see on TV and in the media or even in the communities that we live in, I think that, in some ways, will allow us to stay grounded and in touch with our feelings and gratitude. That’s one, one way I think about it. I don’t know if you have other thoughts on it.

Gene 16:40

I think that’s great. I think, I think it’s all a learning process. The other thing I’m thinking about is, is, is how we can, how we can learn from others who have, you know, major differences from, from us. I mean, so

Khadijah 17:06

the time was everyone coming over for the holidays, they’re going to have different they’re coming from different vantage if they have different ideas, different values, different viewpoints on the world. How do we I guess, one way. How do we learn from them? But also, how do we respect differences of opinion? And you know, you do a lot around conflict resolution. How do we come together at this table and remember that we’re all like that. We all actually love each other, like each other, and want to be here together. Yeah, opposed to getting caught up in the fights and the sides and the the polarization of just even conversation that happens at homes.

Gene 17:53

Yeah, I’m glad you mentioned conflict resolution, because, you know, one of the things that we’ve talked about and in our curriculum on conflict resolution. You know, it’s not as though we, we may have opposing points of view. We may have, you know, but, but the point is, it’s not that we’re all necessarily going to, you know, put our arms around each other and walk away singing Kumbaya. I mean, we may have significant disagreements, but what’s important, I think, is that we that we put ourselves in other people’s shoes, that we use empathy to understand another, another person’s perspective, and that we make sure that we get it and so that we feel understood, and it’s mutual, and we want them to do the same thing for us, and so the first step is understanding, tolerance, acceptance of the differences, and then probably what we all have in common. I mean, if we’re all feeling afraid, marginalized, worried, you know, there are a lot of things that we all want. I mean, we all want our kids to be happy and to be safe. We all want to have food on the table. We all want to be able to create a world in which we can kind of live a productive life. I mean, I don’t think anybody would disagree with that. And you know, the differences may be in how we get there, and that’s another story. I mean, that’s that that maybe we can have productive discussions, but once, when we realize that we all kind of want and need the same things, and and accept that, then we could, then we can Start having productive conversations,

Khadijah 19:37

civil productive conversations, right? So, to wrap up, let me ask, since we’re almost again at Thanksgiving, what are you grateful for this year?

Gene 19:57

I’m grateful for. Ah, having friends and family I’m grateful for. I think, yeah, I think that’s probably mostly most important. I think, you know, grateful for friends and family and for staying connected as much as much as I as much as I can how about you?

Khadijah 20:31

I mean, I think, I think I feel similarly. I’m thankful and grateful for, you know, the health of my children, and the connection that I have with my family and my and my chosen family, like my friends that I, you know, look at as extended family members as well. And just having that community of people that I can enjoy, that I can sometimes we complain together about, share things that we’re that we’re upset about, but having that, having that community of people that that I know will always be available and be supportive.

Gene 21:04

Yeah, you know, it was funny. I was, I was meeting with the chief residents today, and they commented that, you know, it’s amazing how we select resident’s fellows in our program that are so well connected and are united. And I was just telling them that I every week, I get emails, texts, LinkedIn messages from people that I trained and mentored 2030, years ago, and that they stay in the family. And they were, they were, they were really, I think, amazed and incredibly pleased that they that we’ve created a family for them, and they created it for themselves. It goes both ways. By being here in our in our program, you know, and I think it’s leaders like you and the other program directors here and around the country that actually provide a culture for that. So, I was telling them how important you know the creation of a culture is, whether you’re at home or in school or in a community or in a residency or a fellowship, and that you know, when you’re looking for a job. You know, as Mike Jellinick used to say to me when I was being recruited elsewhere, of course, I’d never leave Mass General, but never left no escape velocity for you no but he said one question, who you going to have lunch with? It’s a great question, and, and, and, you know, it’s like from the eagle song already gone, you know, eat a lunch all by yourself. I mean, that nobody wants that. Nobody wants that.

Khadijah 23:01

Well, it is this idea of, you know, you can go to a place and do good work, but where are you going to thrive? And you thrive where you are surrounded by people, and you feel like you’re part of a community, you’re part of a team that you guys support each other, you have each other’s backs. And I think, you know, I definitely make a concerted effort, and I usually say that we’re looking to build a family, we’re looking to build a family. We’re looking to build a community. But maybe they think it’s just a sales pitch. But I think that’s what makes the difference between a place where you just go to work versus a place where you go to thrive and you go to, like, have a pleasurable

Gene 23:32

experience. Yeah, let’s, let’s face it, life’s hard for everybody. I mean, you know, it’s, I think it’s particularly hard for child and adolescent psychiatrist because of all the stress we’re under and, and the incredible challenges, but I think it’s hard for everybody in their own ways, and, and I think you only really survive and keep your head above water.

[OUTRO MUSIC BEGINS]

You know, if you feel connected to others, if you feel there’s somebody you know, you know, to quote the great late Bill Withers that you always have someone to lean on.

Khadijah 24:04

Look at you all these little tag lines. I’m gonna start a little notepad of taglines.

Gene 24:10

Well, they help anyway. So, for those of you at home, if you like what you’ve heard today, consider giving us a review, and as always, we hope that our conversation will help you to have yours. I’m Gene Beresin.

Khadijah 24:28

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins, until next time

[OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]

Episode music by Gene Beresin

Episode produced by Spenser Egnatz