By Gene Beresin, Executive Director and Khadijah Booth Watkins, Associate Director

Posted in: Multimedia, Podcast, Teenagers

Topics: Hot Topics

While the summer is usually painted as time of fun, freedom, and relaxation, for many teens it can feel like the exact opposite — disconnected, isolating, and emotionally heavy. Without the daily structure of school or regular peer interaction, teens can find themselves feeling invisible, left out, or unsure of where they belong.

In the season 8 finale, Gene and Khadijah dive into the impact summer can have on teen loneliness. Tune in for practical tips for parents on how to help their teens stay connected, the power of self-care and creative expression, and ways to keep your teen busy this summer!

We wish you a connected and relaxing summer!  We’ll see you back here in August to discuss the transition from childhood to adult ADHD with special guest Tony Rostain, MD, MA.

Media List

• Summertime: Making The Livin’ Easy With Kids (MGH Clay Center)
• Over-Scheduled Stressed-Out Families (MGH Clay Center)
• 11 Self-Care Tips for Teens and Young Adults (MGH Clay Center)
• Homepage (4-H)
• Why Activism Is Good For Teens — And The Country (MGH Clay Center)
• The Vital Role and Methods of Mental Health Advocacy (Shrinking it Down)

Episode Transcript

SPEAKERS: Gene Beresin, MD, MA; Khadijah Booth Watkins, MD, MPH;

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS]

Gene 00:32

Welcome back to Shrinking it Down: Mental Health Made Simple. I’m Gene Beresin.

Khadijah 00:37

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins,

Gene 00:38

And we’re two child and adolescent psychiatrist at the Clay Center for Young Healthy Minds at the Massachusetts General Hospital. Now this is episode nine of season eight. I don’t know whether, whether the listeners out there, well, I know you watch series Kadijah, I watch a few, but you know, you always have to, kind of, I always have to keep track of, like, Episode What of season which, and what did I see and what did I hear? Well, anyway, this is episode nine of season eight. We’ve been doing this for eight years, and it’s our grand finale of the year. And we’ll, we’re going to dive in what.

Khadijah 01:24

We’re back in September, right?

Gene 01:27

Yeah, we’re back in September, which, by the way, is National Suicide Prevention Month and September 10 just for your records, is World Suicide Prevention Day. And we’ll, we’re going to be focusing on, on, on suicide then, and we have a lot of other really cool things planned. So, but today, we’re going to dive into a topic that is that often goes unnoticed, but it’s actually very timely, because, you know, it’s summer, well, almost summer, and kids are getting out of school, college students are home or out of colleges, and it’s supposed to be The most carefree time of the year, but oftentimes it’s really a lonely time for young people.

Khadijah 02:28

So while summer is usually painted as a time of fun, you know, you think fun in the sun, being carefree, as you mentioned, freedom, relaxation for many teens and probably for many adults, if we’re being honest, we think about it this way, but for a lot of teens and young adults, it can feel like quite the opposite, like you mentioned, like they can feel disconnected, isolated and emotionally heavy, you know, without that daily structure of school or college and that regular, you know, interaction with their peers and friends, teens can kind of find themselves feeling, You know, invisible, left out, unsure where they belong, and some of them feel pretty lonely. And so, this can be tough for some teens and young adults.

Gene 03:07

Yeah. So in this episode, what we’re going to try to do is use the clay centers 3w what to look for, when to worry, what to do, and hope that we can kind of provide some signs for parent, you know, of what parents and caregivers can look for how we can better support our young people through these quieter summer months, and also consider what young people themselves can do to kind of combat and cope with loneliness. So, to start off, Khadijah, how can the lack of daily structure, you know, during the summer affected teens mood and social connections. So, although it’s a time away from school, maybe you could help us see what, what does school provide that’s missing in the summer months? So, you know, there’s sports, there’s activities, there’s lunches, there’s recess, and there’s connection. And even though many kids will eye roll and say, how do you like school? And they’ll eye roll and say, well, whatever, it actually does help with loneliness, doesn’t it? So, what do you think?

Khadijah 04:14

So, structure helps a lot of things. And when, when parents and family ask us, what should we do over the summer? One of the things that we say as psychiatrists is, you know, try to keep and maintain as much structure and routine as you can, because kids strive in structure and routine, and so, you know, that provides a sense of stability for them, a sense of predictability. But also, so many other things happen at school, such as, you know, just the interaction of day to day, being in a classroom that appears and other trusted adults. There’s after school activities like sports and clubs. You know, lunches for some kids can be a great place that they again socialize and engage with them with their peers and in a way that’s less structured, more free, similarly, like they do this in recess. But then there’s other. Things that that we are not thinking about in terms of what this provides it. It provides a sense of, again, connection, the predictability that you know you’ll see somebody that you that you are looking forward to seeing, the stability you know kids like to know what to expect. A lot of kids, especially kids who are anxious, you know, to be able to prepare for the day. So that structure provides that for them, but again, it provides this opportunity for kids to be able to connect and engage with their peers, to engage in pleasurable activities that maybe over the summer are not so readily available to them. So, with that, how can parents find this balance between, you know, over schedule and under schedule in their teens over the summer. And this can be really tricky, especially when we’re talking about teens, because, you know, they have mind of their own. They know what they want to do, how they want to spend their time, and sometimes what they want to do does not always meet the expectations of the adults in the room. And so how do we determine or find that balance between free time, relaxation, you know, unscheduled time, and finding time to make sure that they do have a little bit of structure and a little bit of productivity in their day. How do we help kids plan their summer?

Gene 06:12

Well, that’s a great question. And you know it, it’s interesting, because one of the, one of the main factors, I think, in in the loneliness epidemic, is kids being over structured and over scheduled. You know, with all the activities they have to do, so as much as they combat loneliness, they actually may add to loneliness. It’s a double-edged sword. So, there is a balance. And so how do we as parents, caregivers, and all, all of us that work with, with teens, you know, whether your clergy, coach, mentor, grandparent, older sibling, how do we help? And I’d say there are a number of things that that we can all do. Most important is have frequent conversations. I mean, talk about it. Talk about what you want to do and what you don’t want to do. I would also involve them in planning, you know, structured activities with adults, with parents, with family, with friends, community activities, you know, and try to find things that they initiate, that they are looking to do. You know, they may not want to go and play golf. On the other hand, they may want to play mini golf where they may want to, you know, you know, right? Or pickleball, you know? I mean, hey, you know, there’s lots of things that we can have. We can find out about what would be a family activity. You know, some families camp. Some families hate camps, camping, you know. So, okay, so I would listen to what they want. Give, give them a voice. And you know, this might be a time as much as many people are down on excessive use and potential misuse of social media. This may be a time for the properties of social media, if they can connect online with friends who are elsewhere, who were at maybe family members, and, you know, in another part of the country or away, on some activities, and they have time to kind of connect with them. They could, they could find that as a way of combating loneliness in the summer. What’s we say this over and over again, but it can’t be over it can’t be overemphasized. And that is, is that parents and kids, teens in particular, need, uh, self-care. And that means good diet, exercise, regular sleep. And that’s a part of helping us, you know, have the wherewithal to, kind of like to bounce back and to be highly functional. I would map a lot of these activities in a schedule. I think you’re right on that. You know, it’s not hard to get a whiteboard or, you know, or a flip, flip chart. And, you know, put this, put this up in the kitchen, right near the fridge or something. And so beyond planning all these activities, build an unstructured time. I mean, sometimes kids and we as adults need to just have a break and have and do whatever the spirit moves you in the moment, and not have every moment of the day built in with structure. So that’s just some ideas. But so, Khadijah, what do you think are some effective ways of encouraging a. For your team to stay your team to stay engaged and connected with others. And so how can parents balance giving teens independence, autonomy, separation, which is really what they’re trying to do, but also ensuring that they stay connected and not become isolated.

Khadijah 10:24

So, I mean, we talk, we say this over and over again, but it starts with having conversations with your kids. You know, ask the questions. You won’t know the answers until you ask the questions. Ask them what they want to do. You know who they want to see, how they want to spend their time, and we have to make sure that we also listen to their answers and try to accommodate them, because they again, especially when we’re talking about teens, they often have their own ideas about how they want to spend their time and who they want to spend their time with, but sometimes they don’t have any ideas, or maybe they’re being a little bit kind of strong willed, and they don’t want to schedule their time, and so they’re holding back. But you know, it also is okay for you to make suggestions. You know, suggest things that you think that they might want to do, but do it in a way that you’re doing it with them. So, brainstorm together with them and try to come up with some ideas of again activities they might want to do, people they might want to see or hang out with. You know, make some make some suggestions about people that they might enjoy connecting with or reconnecting with. You know, you know your kids. You know. You know who they you know you know that who their favorite Auntie is, or uncle is, or their other best friend. So, make some suggestions about those things. Maybe also suggest doing some things with them. You know, maybe we can learn to play piano together. Maybe we can learn to play golf together. I think that’s a great thing to do, especially if you have the time. And I think that is another way to again, connect with your kids. Find some pleasurable activities that you guys can do together and sharing together, but you could also suggest they do some of these things on their own. Maybe you can suggest that they learn how to play what pickleball or learn how to swim. But, you know, it’s okay to make suggestions, but we have to be careful that we’re not dictating, but we’re trying to kind of guide them and along the path of trying to come up with some ideas that they would find pleasurable as well. So, with that, so kids like you said, do need some downtime. They do need some of this unstructured time, this unscheduled time. They need time to do what they want to do and how they want to do it. How can we though tell the difference between a kid enjoying downtime or one who’s struggling with loneliness, because it can sometimes be hard, because they are in their rooms and they are, you know, hanging out on their own, doing things, again, just kind of decompressing. How do we know that they’re not actually struggling with loneliness?

Gene 12:39

It’s a great question. And so again, it gets back to what to look for. So, but again, you know, begin with asking. I mean, I would, I think you know how you doing, how are you feeling? Ask how the how they’re doing and what they’re doing, and again, knowing what to look for. I mean, if you notice that there are any changes in behavior, in personality and isolation, in mood, in sadness and irritability, you know, I would, I will make note of it. I would comment on it without being critical. But you know, I’ve noticed, you know you’re, you know you’re more irritable or sad or isolated than before, you know, and then also leave room for the fact that you might be wrong and ask if that’s correct, you know, get validation of your own observations. So, stemming from that, how Khadijah, how do you think parents can what can they what role can they play in helping create meaningful experiences over the summer, I mean. And how can family dynamics help either prevent or worsen the feelings of loneliness and teens?

Khadijah 13:57

So again, you know, we keep saying it over and over again, we have to ask them for their suggestions, make sure that we listen and validate their interests. And again, you know your child, you know what they’re interested in. You know what their strengths are, and so making some suggestions of your own is absolutely okay. But you know, again, if we’re not listening and if we’re not flexible, this can backfire. You know, I made some suggestions, but my son came up with a blank slate for his summer. And I, you know, suggested all these things, and he was like, you hate these things? Like, why would you think I like these things? So instead of me kind of pushing back because I knew that he actually liked these things, I was like, okay, you know, I’m sorry, what do you want to do? Like, this is what I thought you wanted to do. And so, you know, me being flexible, not being defensive, again, opening up the platform for him to kind of share, sometimes, making suggestions is like a way to kind of jump start their creativity and thinking about what they want to do, especially when they don’t want to do the things that you set out for them. So again, I think we have to take this approach of being flexible, being and listening. But also, you can ask them, you know. Are, what are your friends doing that you might enjoy doing? What are your friends doing that you might enjoy doing with them? Maybe we can sign you up for some of the same things or some of the same camps. You know, this is another way, again, to get them thinking about things they might be interested in and also thinking about who they might want to spend their time with. You know, also, you know, sharing. Maybe, if you have older kids, you know, this is what your brother or sister did when they were this age, like they enjoyed it. Do you think you would enjoy it again? They’re their own person but giving them some suggestions and the opportunity to also reject what you’re suggesting is important and respecting that. We also have to kind of be aware of again, being over scheduled and not having enough time for themselves. So we want to balance that, and as we’re having these conversations making sure that we’re also, you know, modeling how we balance, you know, work life balance, how we balance, you know, keeping making time for ourselves and taking care of ourselves as well, so that they can kind of hopefully do the same. But these are just some ideas that I that I think are ways that parents and caregivers can kind of help support their kids as they’re trying to find meaningful activities.

Gene 16:05

And what about the family though? I mean, you know, sometimes there’s, you know, as Nancy Griffith used to say, I don’t know how many of you will remember her, but trouble in the fields. So if there’s trouble at home, if there’s, if there are conflicts in the family, you know, how do we take those things into account, and maybe even, you know, without getting too much into your own personal lives as parents and caregivers, what happens If the family dynamics are pretty, you know, stinky and they’re seeing things around them and makes them lonely.

Khadijah 16:46

You know, I think we have to acknowledge those things. You know, hopefully, you know, we can acknowledge them and again, make it okay for the kids to talk about it and share how they feel about it. But, you know, we have to acknowledge those things. I think it does also really helpful. You know, when we acknowledge some of the challenges, especially for our kids, to know, these are the things that we’re doing to try to, you know, remedy, rectify these, these challenges. I know, I think, you know, sometimes parents are having, you know, challenges with one another. Maybe there, you know, charged with a task of taking care of an elder, an older parent, you know, so their time is kind of taken up or split in more ways and they would like, like their time to be, you know, maybe there’s a parent, you know, struggling with an illness, you know, but acknowledging that these things are happening, that these things might impact, you know, their availability. Ask them how they feel about it, you know, and think about how you can try to, you know, strike a balance of compromise. There might be just some limitations that you just cannot overcome. And I again, having those conversations and not being afraid to say, you know, this is what I can do, this is what I can’t do. It’s also okay to say, I don’t know when you don’t have the answers. But you know, being honest, being open, you know, as much as reasonable to share with your child about some of these challenges and struggles. You know, keeping secrets is really, you know, not good kids know they paint. They paid attention. They’re watching, they’re listening. They know when something is amiss. And so, keeping secrets and pretending that everything is okay is going to really, it’s going to actually, really backfire, because then then you’re going to lose trust. And we rely on our relationships and our trust with our young people to be able to kind of, again, guide them in the way that we think is best for them, and help them to make good decisions. When they don’t trust us, they’re really going to be more reluctant to come to us with their challenges and their problems or any advice. And so, I think, you know, again, striking that balance of sharing versus over sharing, but you know, making sure that we’re not keeping secrets, because secrets can be harmful. So how do we help a teen whose friends are all the way or even again? You know? You know, kids are summers are busy. Can be busy for kids, whether it’s structured activities, but kids go away to sleep, away camp, you know, they might be visiting with extended family, or even vacation with their own family. And this can also be relevant to young adults who are coming home from college. You know they’re leaving behind their community, their group of friends. Maybe they’re no longer as connected to their friends who live at home, and so they may also be dealing with some social isolation over the summer. So how do we support these teens and possibly young adults when they find themselves in a situation?

Gene 19:22

That’s a great question. So, I mentioned it before, but I know we’re all worried about the misuse of or excessive use of social and digital media, but, but this is a time when it is not only very appropriate, but it’s super helpful. There are some other things that that that can help, and that is use of Creative Arts. I mean, journaling, dancing, singing, playing an instrument, going to concerts, you know, going to museums, immersing yourself in arts. It’s, it’s. It’s valuable, it’s helpful, and there’s a lot of research to show that it helps improve mood anxiety, and I think it can help with loneliness. We can also think about what venues are there in your own local communities that have areas of interest for your kids and where they can meet new people. So, you know, I remember way back when my kids were very young, they went to 4-H. We didn’t know about 4-H but 4-H was actually kind of a cool place. It still exists you know!

Khadijah 20:38

I can’t believe it. Okay,

Gene 20:41

Well, yeah, they, they went to 4-H for a number for a number of years, you know, and their community centers and their community activities and their local groups. So, there’s cleanup days, you know, when there’s, there’s, there’s days helping at the local Arboretum. You know, town, every town has different, you know, cool things to do. I mean, my grandchildren today are going out with one of their parents and with another adult to go look at an old mill and have a tour of an old mill. Then they may meet people there. You know, where I out, where I live, you know, there’s this wonderful sculpture museum to do, Cordova, which is totally outside, but everybody’s walking around, people talk to each other. They can meet people there. So, there’s all kinds of places that you can, kind of like, help them get to, where they could, where they could meet, meet new people and make new friends. The other thing is there, as I was mentioning today, sometimes some of my families are going to see this old mill. I’m home working. I can’t go. I, you know, might be, might be a neat thing to say. But are there things that you could do with your family members? And one final one, we have a blog on this. And you know, again, I have to be careful not to wax political, or I might go into a rant of one kind or another, but, but activism is good for young people, many, many, young, many, many members of Gen Z are probably more concerned these days than ever in any other generation, with climate change, with war with gun control, with the discrimination of people of color and LGBTQ individuals. And I could go on, but you know, there are activism, you know, is incredibly valuable. It helps them connect with others. It helps them meet others around common causes, and provided that it’s nonviolent, and that it is appropriate, and that it’s exercising the First Amendment rights, even though they’re minors and they need your consent as parents or caregivers, it is super important for them to feel that they’re a part of changing world they’re inheriting. And I can’t tell you how many young people that I know that that have been, you know, out, you know, demonstrating or meeting in groups and have made really good friends, and also, if the people there that disagree with them, they can learn something about having civil conversations and resolving conflict, or at least accepting differences. So, it’s, I think it’s a really cool and important thing for young people to do,

Khadijah 23:45

Yeah, and I think these are great suggestions. And I think what I also hear, that I don’t think we mentioned, is some of this takes some kind of proactive planning, especially, you know, you know the summer’s coming, you know, your kids are coming home from school proactively, kind of getting a sense of what’s out there, what’s available. So, kind of, we talk about planning ahead, coping ahead. This is a this is something that, I think that we also should kind of make sure that we emphasize some of this does require a little bit of kind of preplanning. And

Gene 24:13

Speaking of planning, or things that that are that have been planned, what role does FOMO, Fear of Missing Out, play in the teens, emotional well-being so others might be out there, out and about, either demonstrating or, yeah. I mean, you know, you’ve got a college grad, and you’ve got a kid in in high school, right? I mean, so do they do? Are they concerned about fear of missing out.

Khadijah 24:41

So, you know, I think it is a big thing because, you know, kids are again, so very connected, and especially this digital world, they can see all of the things that all of their friends are doing or all of their peers are doing. And of course, when we put ourselves online, we paint ourselves in the bright. Slightest light, and we don’t talk about any of the things that are not going well, so all they see is the glitter and the gold. And so, they can, again, literally, see all the things that their friends are doing, and they can also see the things that they are not invited to do. And so, I think that can be a big challenge for a lot of kids, and kind of can exacerbate the sense of feeling isolated and alone. And this, you know, again, sometimes can’t be avoided. You know, you’re you may not be able to hang out with your friends because you might be away on a family vacation, or you might be away at camp. And so, kind of helping kids to kind of strike the balance of, yes, these things are happening over here with your friends, and trying to help them kind of think about, you know, we think about resilience skills like, you know, change their perspective. You know, find gratitude and be grateful for the things that they’re doing. You know, try to find the positive spin on what where they are presently. But also, you know, when you get back home, you can maybe plan or create some activities that you can include your friends and that you can kind of join in as well. So I think it is a big thing that that kids struggle with, and really helping them strike the balance and find that that sense of, you know, in some ways, acceptance that you can’t be all places at all times, and we can make time and space to do the things that your friends are doing with your friends when we can. It’s hard because again, I think there’s just they just see so much of what everything is happening around them, and it’s hard for them to kind of accept the fact that they’re not included, and that they might be missing out on a great time, so much so that they miss the great time that they actually could be having doing what they are currently doing. I think it’s harder. They’re not doing anything, though,

Gene 26:40

and they might, but then again, their friends who are finding out what they’re doing might be, might fear missing out of kind of the new activities that they’re getting engaged in. So, you know, it goes both ways. I mean, they, one of their friends, might be stuck in a camp, and, you know, not. So, they would rather be kind of like, you know, back here, like learning an instrument or playing pickleball,

Khadijah 27:07

Right. The whole thing, like, the grass is not always greener on the other side. Like helping them see, like, you know, helping them find that perspective, and being able to see things from that way.

Gene 27:17

Well, you know, I guess, I guess it’s really kind of a part of growing up. Everybody misses something. Everybody also gets things and how you kind of see yourself in light of, you know, again, comparisons we’ve seen with various scandals, like when Instagram with body image and, you know, everybody else is more well off than you. I mean, I think we part of this gets into, I guess media literacy, or I guess mental literacy, and that is, you know, you can’t always get what you like, but the Rolling Stones always say, you can’t always get what you want, but you get what you need. And so, we have to help our kids feel that they’re getting what they need, but they’re not always getting everything that they want,

Khadijah 28:06

Because comparison can be the death of joy.

Gene 28:09

Oh man, yeah, yeah. Well, look, it’s just natural. I mean, we all compare ourselves to others. I mean, you know, I know I do at times, and I’m sure you do. Everybody does. So, the question is, how can you compare yourself in a way that values what other people are doing but doesn’t see it as a deficit in yourself? I mean, that’s an incredibly hard thing to learn, and we can help our kids, kind of like develop that skill as they get older,

Khadijah 28:40

That’s important, incredibly important to wrap up. Let me ask you, what are you most looking forward to this summer? Since we’re talking about summer and how fun and carefree summer is?

Gene 28:53

Well, okay, I’ll tell you what I’m looking forward to and not looking forward to. I have a love.

Khadijah 28:58

That wasn’t the question. But of course, you can do that, since you are.

Gene 29:01

I’ll start with that, and then I’ll get to what I’m most looking forward to. I have a love, hate relationship with my garden. I mean, it’s, it’s, I love it, but it’s also like a constant battle with critters and vermin and vermin and watering and, you know, rabbits and whatever. Okay, one of the things that my family is doing this summer, we typically go to my sister’s cabin in Chichester, which is in the Catskills, not far from Phoenicia, which some nobody’s heard of, but not far from Woodstock, which I hope, hopefully many people have heard of. And it’s very rustic, but it’s very small. So, one of the things the family decided to do all four kids, nine grandchildren, spouses and. Uh, my sister and her family, I don’t know how many people we’re renting, essentially a monstrous Airbnb. I think it’s a camp for a week. And all going to just hang out there for one week over the summer. And that will be kind of an amazing experience. I’m really looking forward to that.

Khadijah 30:28

That sounds awesome.

Gene 30:30

How about you?

Khadijah 30:32

So, I have planned a solo trip, which I’ve never really taken before, abroad. So I’m really looking forward to that experience of, kind of being on my own, following my own schedule, you know, doing the things that I want to do, but also kind of being in a new country, you know, with a different culture, different language, and just really looking forward to kind of exercising some of my skills. You know, I’m more of an introverted person. So, you know, being out and again on my own, and having to kind of spark up conversations in my, you know, broken language, because I’ve done enough Duolingo that I think I can’t communicate, but it’s not going to be pretty. And being okay with that, being okay with, you know, the downtime, again, like we talked about, sometimes downtime can, cannot feel great, but being okay with the downtime. And so, I’m just looking forward to, kind of what this experience will be for me and really just enjoying it. So that’s

Gene 31:31

But, you know, given, given the fact that, as you said, I don’t see you as a shy person, but introverted, but you know, you’re going, you’re going it alone. So how, how are you going to combat and with a different language, how are you going to combat loneliness? I mean, I know it’s going to be exciting to go to a foreign country and see all these cool things, but, but you’re by yourself.

Khadijah 31:56

So, so my so part of like, we said, like coping and planning ahead. So, I thought about that. And so, the things that I that I know that I will do because of my nature is like after, after the day is done, I will retreat to my room and stay there. So instead of doing that, I’m going to be deliberate about, you know, making sure that I go out to dinner, you know, summertime. So making sure that I sit outside so I can, you know, just be immersed in the people and the culture and the busyness of the street, you know, being deliberate about, you know, making small talk again in my terrible, probably broken language that I’ll have, but make it small talk with people who are nearby to me. So, it really is going to be more of a deliberate process. And I have plenty of things to kind of keep my interest, like books and, you know, magazines, and I probably will do a little bit of work while I’m away. So, I so I think it’s just really the more proactive planning about how I will try to stay engaged and connected. And then, of course, you know, I will still be talking to and communicating with, you know, friends and family back home.

[OUTRO MUSIC STARTS]

So, I think I’ll be okay. I hope I’ll be okay. I’ll come back and report when we pick up the next season.

Gene 32:58

I’m sure you will. And if you contact me, I can maybe, maybe I’ll come over.

Khadijah 33:05

That’d be great. That’d be great.

Gene 33:07

So, for those of you at home, as we close out this season, if you liked what you’d heard today, give us a review, and as always, that our conversation will help you have yours. I’m Gene Beresin

Khadijah 33:21

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins. Until next time.

[OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]

Episode music by Gene Beresin

Episode produced by Spenser Egnatz