By Gene Beresin, Executive Director and Khadijah Booth Watkins, Associate Director

Posted in: Multimedia, Podcast

Topics: Relationships

In this Valetine’s Day special of Shrinking it Down, Gene and Khadijah explore how teen romance is being reshaped in the digital age. From texting and social media to AI chatbots, they unpack the ways technology is transforming how teens connect, communicate, and even break up. While some online spaces can create a sense of closeness and constant connection, they also bring new challenges such as comparison culture, ghosting, and difficulty navigating face-to-face relationships.

Tune in for practical guidance on the importance of modeling healthy relationships, staying informed about their children’s digital worlds, and when to worry about a breakup.

Media List

• Exploring the World of AI Therapy (MGH Clay Center)
• How Teens Incorporate Online Platforms and Digital Devices Into Their Romantic Relationships (Pew Research Center)
• Hit Send, No Wait: The Dangers Of A Hyper-Personal Online Life (MGH Clay Center)
• Social Media & Body Image (Shrinking it Down)
• Teens, Technology and Romantic Relationship (Pew Research Center)
• The Power of Peer Support (Shrinking it Down)
• Conflict Resolution Course (MGH Clay Center)
• Ways to Help Your Lonely Teenager (MGH Clay Center)

Transcript

SPEAKERS: Gene Beresin, MD, MA; Khadijah Booth Watkins, MD, MPH;

[INTRO MUSIC PLAYS]

Gene 00:28

Welcome back to Shrinking it Down: Mental Health Made Simple. I’m Gene Beresin.

Khadijah 00:33

And I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins.

Gene 00:34

We’re two children and adolescent psychiatrists at the Clay Center for young healthy minds at the Massachusetts General Hospital,

Khadijah 00:42

and times are changing, which is what happens with time.

Gene 00:46

Dylan does a Dylan song, isn’t it?

Khadijah 00:49

I think it is like I’m feeling creative today. I’m feeling creative and musical

Gene 00:52

after all the times they are a changin.

Khadijah 00:55

Yes, times are changing. And with that, you know, romance looks a little bit different. So teen romance looks very different today than it did a generation ago. I mean, if we think about, you know, the ability to text, and there’s social media, and then there’s now the AI chat box, things have changed tremendously in the way that teens connect with one another, communicate and even break up with one another. And so, digital spaces can help teens feel closer and more supported. It can also sometimes bring new challenges, like, you know, comparison and kind of putting yourself up against other people, and then this whole phenomenon of ghosting. I mean, back when I was dating, there was a landline and so people had to call the house. It was a built-in screen, so you kind of people kind of knew who you were talking to, and kind of had a little bit of sense of what was going on in your life, and now everything can just happen in a vacuum, in some ways.

Gene 01:48

So, in honor of Valentine’s Day this month, we’ll try to explore this notion of romance in the digital age. And so, we’ll look at how technology is shaping teen relationships, the emotional, social and skills teens are developing or missing, and how parents can support healthy connections, both off and online.

Khadijah 02:15

So, let’s go back to this idea of how dramatically you know, romance and dating has changed with this again, with social media, texting, the chat boxes, compared to when many parents were teenagers themselves and going through the dating phases. How was it different for you?

Gene 02:35

It was a lot different. I mean, you know, I still remember the film Bye Bye Birdie, when the telephone was really the most worrisome thing for parents, and it’s like, it’s, it’s, it’s nothing like today. So, we had the telephone, and we were and, you know, like we would meet each other after school or in the park or at the mall, you know. And it was never an immediate thing. It had to evolve. But you know, though new relationships and breakups occurred, you know, they took time to get in them, to get out of them. And on the negative side, if there were bad feelings like name calling or bullying or competition that were that has always been present, the scope of the assaults, the scope of the loss, the scope of the distancing, was never as immediate as it is now, nor was the scope of who could find out who was breaking up or connecting with whom and when. And as for advice, you know, you had to go and ask somebody you know, whether it was a relative, a counselor, you know, an older sibling, a parent. Few of us went to parents for advice, but and not use AI chatbots for advice. So, I think it was much more personal. But AI is instant. Instant and it’s compelling, and as we heard from Andy Clark in a previous podcast, it is potentially dangerous, and its intention was to keep you engaged and not necessarily give you the best of advice.

Khadijah 04:18

You know that idea of how quickly information is disseminated. You know you may have a new relationship or a breakup, and before you even figure out how you feel about it or who you want to share with it, who you want to share this news with, personally, everyone already knows, like it’s just so immediate and so pervasive. And going back to this idea of having that landline on the phone and that delay, you know, really served a huge purpose in that it allowed you to one focus on what you’re supposed to be focused on while you’re in school. But also, you know, someone in the household theoretically knows that you’re having a kind. Conversation with someone. It allows for it allows for conversations to be had about, you know, who were you talking to? Tell me about this person. It allows for, you know, guidance and for you to be supported in a way that I think is just much harder when everything is done again in this vacuum, through on cell phones and text messaging and social media platforms. So, I think those changes really have changed the way parents can parent and support kids too.

Gene 05:27

And you know, it’s, in some ways, what’s scary about it. And I mean, I’ve seen so many, you know, teens that have been using TikTok, for example, and if they’re, if they’re hooking up with somebody where they want to, or they’re or they want to ghost or cancel somebody, and they don’t, and they don’t designate only for friends or only for, you know, folks that I that are on my contact lists. It’s, it’s global. I mean, the whole world knows and that’s, that’s kind of beyond awesome. Now, you know, a study from the Pew Research Center found that nearly 75% of teens say they feel closer to their romantic partners because of the conversations they’re having online and on text, which is odd to me. At the same time, teams who rely heavily on digital communications tend to show weaker conflict management and assertive skills, assertiveness skills. So, in other words, they feel closer, but they’re not able, they say, to resolve conflicts as easily. So, the downsides of digital connection outweigh the benefits possible, and when most emotional conversations happen through screens, what key interpersonal skills might teens miss out on by practicing face to face. What do you think?

Khadijah 07:04

I mean? So that study is interesting because I can, on one hand, see how teens maybe feel closer because they’re talking all the time again, whereas back in the day, you had to wait till you got home to get to the landline, and at that point you kind of also had maybe parents or caregivers overseeing, say, not until you’ve had dinner, or not until homework. So, I think the quantity of communication, or how much they’re communicating over the course of a day, I can in some way, see how depending on the convocation conversation, because it really is about quality over quantity. But if the conversations are intense or deep or intimate, in some way, I can see how maybe the teens do feel more connected to their relationships. But I do also think that not having that face to face and really experiencing how to have these difficult conversations, how to, you know, set these boundaries, how to express emotion in real time, in person, can for some people, be scary, and I think they lose that ability to kind of navigate and figure out how to do that for themselves, because they’re behind screens, they’re online, and so I think that takes the pressure off and allows people to do things that are sometimes not so nice, like, you know, saving things because they don’t have to look at you in the face, or they don’t have to See you. Or I think that, I think the screens and that the that barrier does allow for, for, for a lack of building that skill of really, again, just emotional connectedness, the building of empathy, and again, having these difficult conversations and being able to be responsive to someone else’s feelings and emotions in real time.

Gene 08:39

And you know, once you’ve said something, you can’t take it back. I mean, it’s out there, it’s gone. I mean, unless the person responds and says, well, what do you mean by that? And then you can correct yourself. But if, if, if, if you, if you make a blunder, or you say something that’s really nasty, and you say, “Wait a second. Wait a second, unless you catch yourself, it’s out there. It’s viral. If you, if you’ve made a blunder like that, you know you’ve kind of lived with it.

Khadijah 09:13

Yeah, and I think that’s one of those things that we talk a lot about in terms of how we’re encouraging parents and educators to really teach media literacy and how to, you know, be mindful of the digital footprint, how to take a pause before you put something out there into the to the ether, for it to be there forever. And I think for young people, you know, who are just innately because of their development, already so impulsive, they it’s hard for them to think about that whole that’s still going to be there a year from now, two years from now, 10 years from now, this thing that I put up, this picture or these words that I put up, and so I think it is really important for us to constantly remind them of what they put out on in a text message or online. It is there forever and they can hurt and what you say can really hurt people. I mean, I know it was. Joking about it, but words can really be hurtful, and can last like it’s those invisible wounds that people inflict on one another, sometimes without intending to, but sometimes just in a careless way, where we just don’t care that we hurt other people, right?

Gene 10:15

And so, it reminds me of what we posted on the clay center that was written by Annie for Shell and Kristen and Tristan Gorrindo called W.A.I.T, you know, you know. And the acronym, wait, you know what we would I want to say this in front of a school assembly, you know, a what’s my effect now? Am I feeling good about something? Am I feeling angry? What’s my emotional status? I intend? Is my intent? Clear? You know, we’re going to be misunderstood. Or, you know, what do I want to intend? What do I intend to get across and T today, tomorrow, and I might add, and or never. So, if, if, if we, if we kind of use that acronym more readily, if everybody could, like, think about that, I think there’d be a lot less, you know, damage, potential damage,

Khadijah 11:15

yeah, I agree. I think the other thing that happens with young people is especially again, this online presence, this idea of looking at other people’s lives and making assumptions or judgments about who they are and what they’ve done to get there and then and then, in turn, comparing yourself to other people has really had a big impact on young people in terms of their self-esteem and they’re so their self-worth. And I And it always, I always think about that, that saying that comparison is really the death of joy. Like, if you’re constantly comparing yourself and trying to live up to something that you also don’t have all of the details for can be really challenging. It’s like, like trying to hit a moving goal post. You know, often online, people don’t put the secret to the secret sauce, like, they just show you the end result, and you don’t know all the hard work, but again, young people are often just seeing the end result and comparing themselves, and I think that can be really challenging. And what do you, what do we do? Or how do we support kids who are kind of trapped in that cycle?

Gene 12:14

So, you know, we all, we all remember, or at least, I hope we do the Instagram scandal affecting body image with their doctored photos with an emphasis on image and thinness, and it proved to be quite dangerous. You know, there’s much more ability to do this online than in person, though it does happen in person, but the more we compare, the more we have opportunity to show who we really are, you know, and, and not just see and we and look, we all have flaws. I mean, why not? Why not learn to kind of live with our flaws and show them and show our weaknesses as great as much as our strengths. So online comparisons can really impair self-esteem and self-worth and that, you know, as you point out. I mean, I think all of us, both adults and young people, need to know something about online etiquette. And the companies you know are clearly responsible. They know who they’re engaging. They know how to engage people, and we know from many research studies that they’re targeting certain populations and capitalizing on what is either appealing or what is distressing to young people. But let’s, let’s look at, let’s look at ghosting, you know, and ghosting is, as I understand it is, when someone ends a relationship by suddenly withdrawing from all communication without explanation, and it’s been increasingly common among young people. So, Khadijah, what do you think the effects are of ghosting or mental health? And how can parents’ caregivers help support their teens who’ve been ghosted. Oh.

Khadijah 14:03

I mean, ghosting is, again, I think one of these things that comes about because it’s just so easy to do things behind a screen or behind a barrier. And so, while, I think again, texting and social media allows for more frequent contact and more consistent contact, like, who doesn’t like to get this message? Or say, oh, I was just thinking about you, or I heard you had a rough week. Just check those things are they kind of can build relationships and connection. But just as easy as it is to text someone, it’s easy to just ignore text messages or just disappear after we’ve been talking for weeks or months, or even sometimes people, this happens to people and they’ve been talking for years. And I think this is also a challenge in romantic relationships, but also in just platonic relationships. All of a sudden, we were friends, and we used to hang out, and now all of a sudden, we’re not, but it can really, really hit a young person’s self-esteem and their sense of self-worth. I mean, they’re caught off guard. They have no idea. Idea as to what happened. You know, this idea, and maybe the idea is not closure, but just really understanding, like where things went wrong. You know, some kids and young people are quick to blame themselves for why something ended. And so, I think there is just this lack of, I think when you go someone with mutual respect. And again, this is not for all situations, because maybe there’s a situation where it’s the safe thing to do to go someone, but for most, most of the time, I mean, I think giving someone the small modicum of just respect and treating them with dignity and having a conversation as to why this is no longer going to work or no longer appropriate or no longer of interest, can really allow people to really kind of put a pin in it. I think it also gives people a sense of uneasiness, and it makes it hard for them to trust people, because it’s just, again, not knowing if someone is just going to stop responding to your messages or stop taking your calls or stop, you know, commenting on your posts, and that sense, again, of unease and mistrust can really bleed into how they approach future relationships. And we really want to try to help our kids in terms of parents, help them to identify and understand how to maintain healthy relationships, but also how to identify and get out of unhealthy relationships. And so, I think the idea of, how do you help them with ghosting is helping them to understand that. Again, someone that ghosts you really wasn’t someone who is a friend who cared about you, who was being respectful. And these are not things that we want in a friendship or romantic partner. Again, just helping them understand in terms of as they’re growing like, what are the things to look out for? What are the red flags? What are, what are the, what are the, what are the, what are the Go lights, because it can be hard to tell when you get so wrapped up in emotions and the newness of relationships to just kind of, you know, once you get ghosted, to feel like a lot of shame and blame.

Gene 16:54

So, ghosts actually take hits too,

Khadijah 16:58

right? It’s like the bully and the bullied, right?

Gene 17:02

And, and, and, as we know, they’re the bullies are, you know, and bully victims, that is, people who are bullied and who are also victims, are the ones who are most distressed and most and subject to the most late in later life, depression, anxiety and, frankly, suicidal thinking. But what about the ghosters? I mean, what, you know, how do we, how do we help deal with people who’ve just blown somebody off?

Khadijah 17:33

So, so I think again, I people are always kind of tossing around like, I need closure. I need closure. And, you know, someone else. I think helping young people understand someone else cannot truly give you closure. So, I think, again, I think that is really what can be helpful in terms of parents and caregivers, and how to support young people. But it also, for some people, can be helpful to understand that the person who’s ghosted you may also be in distress, or they may also be struggling. They may also feel bad or guilty about what they’ve done. And to, again, put it maybe too into some context. And again, it really is kind of an issue. Again, really trying to encourage the kid to not make that their issue, like, really to understand like they ghosted me. There’s nothing that I can do about it. Let me focus on myself and my own joy and things that make me happy and the other healthy relationships around me that I can pour into and that I can focus on. And while we have to also validate that it can be hurtful, it can be sad, we also don’t want to kind of collude with them in the shaming or the blaming, or again, this need for closure.

Gene 18:45

So, you know, there have been a lot of studies about abusive and controlling relationships, even harassment, and I wonder how parents can support their teens. So for example, in some studies that show that about 11% of teens with relationships report that occurred or former partner has contacted them with the internet or their cell phone with a threat to hurt them, and almost a quarter of teens with relationship Experience have had a partner who’s used the internet to call them names, to put them down with say really mean things about them. So, in other words, it could be a real weapon, and I think we have to help, help our teens appreciate the fact that the cell phones are not just there to connect, but they can be. They can be used as weapons. So, what do you think parents should consider? What should parents consider outside support, you know, like therapy or counseling of some kind, especially. Really after bad experiences with ghosting or digital breakups,

Khadijah 20:07

You know, I always say like, when there’s a major or major shift in behavior or, you know, major shift in anxiety or mood or symptoms, you know, I think that’s when you really should consider getting extra help. And if you’re not sure if you should be seeking extra help, you know, she could always again. Your pediatrician is the gateway to mental health care, so it can never hurt to have a consultation. You know, we always, always say, you know, you don’t have to worry alone. You don’t have to figure it out alone, like you have a team. And so, I think if you have any concerns, I always encourage parents, regardless of how big or small you think it may or may not be. If you are feeling the tug to get more support for your child, just do it like it cannot hurt. But there are some signs again, like major changes in behavior, changes in sleep, changes in appetite, isolation, withdrawal, like if they start to you, start to notice a decline in their academic performance, or they no longer are enjoying doing things, like they used to play a sport, or they used to be part of the play, and they just don’t want to do those things anymore. Those things are usually early signs, or maybe even middle moderate signs that things are not going well. So, these are all just causes you to say that something is not on track and there’s no there’s no harm in getting a consultation to see if there’s some additional support needed, and definitely if there’s any concerns about danger. So especially if your child is talking about or alluding to, not, you know, wanting to hurt themselves and wanting to hurt other people, those are always reasons to definitely seek help. Or if they if you notice that they’re starting to use substances like anything that is outside of the normal, their baseline behaviors really should, kind of a little warning bell should go off to say, like, either I should be watching this a little bit more closely and watching how this evolves, or, again, just seek, seek a consultation with your pediatrician and then determine from that point whether there needs to be more in the way of professional intervention and support. The school maybe could also be a place, if the school is a place that is, you know, psychologically minded place, they have people that can help. They may also be a potential place where you can kind of seek some support for your child. Maybe it could not be a psychiatrist or a therapist, but maybe there’s some peer groups they can be part of that can be supportive.

Gene 22:17

I think parents need to realize that first of all, you know, we tend to blame a lot of depression, anxiety, stress, loneliness, and increases in suicide on social media. The fact is, is that none of it is causative. What’s really causative are early, adverse childhood experiences, that is, kids at a young age who have witnessed abuse, neglect, health you know, disparities, incarceration of parents, substance use at home, all these things you know, are causative of mental health problems. And the fact is, is that even though we need to worry about digital media, the vast majority of young people don’t abuse it. The vast majority don’t. I mean, it’s really and the fact is, is that for some we shouldn’t forget that appropriate use of social media can be really beneficial. I mean, look at how it helped kids during lockdown, during covid for two and a half years. I mean, it was an incredible thing for young people, as well as adults, to use digital media to connect. And for certain kids, kids who are shy, kids who are anxious, kids who are on the autistic spectrum, it may be more comfortable for them to start using digital media in appropriate ways. And again, parents and caregivers need to guide them. So, there are some beneficial uses of social media that we really shouldn’t forget. You know, go ahead, go ahead.

Khadijah 24:11

Sorry. So I was just going to add, I know we talked a lot about having conversations early and often with our young people, and so part of, I think the only way that you can kind of support your child, guide your child or young person, is if you are aware of what’s going on. And so, while we don’t encourage like, you know, snooping and spying, it’s completely okay to be aware of who they’re talking to, where they’re going, you know, ask questions about what they’re doing online, what platforms they’re using. That’s really important, because you can’t really, you don’t know if you don’t know, so you can’t you don’t know how to help them know, know where to jump in if you don’t know what they’re doing, who they’re talking to, what platforms they’re using, you have no, no, no sense that, no context in terms of what put. Dangers may, may be out there, but also you don’t have any context under, under which you can kind of guide them and help them kind of navigate this tricky, this tricky landscape of, you know, growth and development and adolescence and, you know, independence and autonomy. And so, I think really, really, really encouraging having these conversations again, there’s no, we’re not invading their privacy by asking who they’re talking to. Who is your friend, who are your friends? Like, what do you guys do when you hang out? Where are you going to be? Like, I think we want to give kids autonomy. We want to give them space to grow. But that doesn’t mean we can’t still parent and guide, guide them and coach them through, through what can be really tricky. And I think the other thing that we don’t, do not want to kind of undervalue is this modeling, like, how do we model for our kids, you know, healthy relationships, and how do we behave in a healthy manner within relationships? And our kids get their ideas of how we treat each other and how we respect one another from what they see us doing, whether it’s with our partner, you know, whether it’s what you know, how I treat my own siblings, how I treat my own friends, and so really trying to model these, these behaviors, you know, and having these conversations, or even if you’re upset with a friend, like, if you have a falling out with a friend, like, how do you model in a healthy way how to end a relationship, or how to take some space in a relationship? So, I think we cannot undervalue or minimize the value, I guess, of modeling these things for our young people, right?

Gene 26:27

But I don’t know about you, but not that many kids want to talk to their parents about their romantic relationships. I mean, they don’t want to know about their parents’ romantic relationship,

Khadijah 26:44

I mean, and they don’t, they don’t, maybe want to talk about it, but you don’t not. You don’t necessarily know that they don’t want to talk about it, unless you ask them about it, like you would surprise some of the stuff that you kids share that you probably don’t even want to know but you don’t know until you ask. And I think about my two sons, one shares, maybe two freely, and one is like a vault. I have to literally be like, you can’t go to a friend’s house if I don’t know their names and I don’t know their parents like you can’t this is, this is, this is my rule in my household, like they’re there, we can’t have those kinds of

Gene 27:19

but do they tell you the details? Do they tell you the details of their romantic relationship?

Khadijah 27:22

Relationships? I will definitely say sometimes I have more details than I care to know, but for the most part, it’s appropriate above board. And again, they’re very different personalities. One is definitely more talkative, more personal, interpreter you know, personal, the other one is definitely shyer and more kind of guarded with his information. But yeah, I still ask. Of course, even though I know that, even though I know I’m going to get shut down immediately and get with the side eye, I still ask.

Gene 27:52

So, the important thing, the important thing is to have conversations early and to ask. But remember that kids, all kids are different. So, some kids will talk with their parents. Some kids would rather talk to an older sibling or a relative or a mentor or, you know, a coach or a counselor you know. And kids, I think, also want to talk with each other. I mean, this is what you know, Students Against Destructive Decisions and for high school kids and for college students’ active minds like peer supervision or peer discussions. You know that are supervised are often really good places for them to kind of like, learn about relationships and about the ins and outs of relationships. But I totally agree. I mean, ideally, we would love to be able to have open discussions with our kids about just about anything, and, and, and that’s you know, that means we have started super early.

Khadijah 28:55

And I think even, even if, again, even if the kid that stonewalls me at me I, me asking the questions, me, me kind of showing interest, you know, worst case scenario, if he does have a bad relationship, or if he does have a bad, you know, situation with a plutonic relationship, he at least knows that I’m open to hearing and want to talk about it with them. I think that is the other kind of that. That’s the other kind of angle to think about when you’re when you’re asking questions and trying to inquire. Trying to inquire and trying to be part of an active part of your child’s life. Like definitely, as parents, we have to understand as our role changes as they grow. But I also want them to know that if you do ever run into questions concerning concerns, or you feel like you’re in a relationship that doesn’t feel safe, I’m here to help you because I and I want to know. And so, I think the asking, even if they don’t share all the time, you might be surprised one day, they just might come to you and share something because they know that you have asked and that you’re open to having those conversations.

Gene 29:51

So, to wrap things up, even though this could go on forever, ever, I.

Khadijah 30:00

Yeah, I was, I was, I was hoping to tell stories about how dating happened in my house with the landline and all of the people sitting around while you’re having a conversation, because there was no real like privacy. There’s a landline. You couldn’t take that phone and take it into the room, you know, it was stuck to the wall. But I guess we’ll save that story for

Gene 30:15

another day. Yeah, well, I remember those days, but so, so let’s, let’s what was the most to wrap up, what’s been the most difficult kind of conversation that you’ve had with your kids,

Khadijah 30:34

If we’re talking Staying on the topic of relationships, kind of having a conversation that maybe is a layered conversation over time, that this doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship. This relationship doesn’t sound like it’s going in the right direction. This relationship doesn’t sound like it’s good for you based on what you’re telling me. And so, I’ve had to have that conversation, because I think again, young people, they’re impulsive, they’re also intense like their emotions are very high. And so, relationships, I remember relationships feel very, very can feel very, very intense and fiery. And so having a conversation from the outside looking in, when you see something not really going well, you have to be thoughtful about how you have those conversations. You have to think about their feelings and what they’re experiencing. And so while you like this person, while you’re into this person, I just want to share with you some things that you that that I’ve seen, and even some things that you’ve shared with me that makes me a little bit worried about this, about this relationship again.

Gene 31:36

But then they may say to you, look, if I, if I don’t, if I don’t, stay friends with this person who is a bit sketchy, then I’m out. I’m alone because, because we’re part of a group. So, so, so you know, how do they never.

Khadijah 32:00

really important, and yep, with young people, for sure,

Gene 32:03

group dynamics, that’s what I’m getting at. Right? The group dynamic is really important, and it’s very, very hard to navigate that. Now we could have discussions with a bunch of kids, and that’s why I was focusing previously on, you know, Students Against Destructive Decisions or Active Minds, because when, when kids are talking with each other, you know, I remember probably one of the fondest experiences of my, of my, you know, life a neighbor was, grew up in the Unitarian Church, and I went, and I think I played the piano a few times in this church. And I’m not Unitarian, so they asked me if I would run a group. Why are you? You are young, righteous, Unitarian, Universalists? Well, it really was about identity. And I went for, I don’t know, a few years, I guess not every week, but, you know, I forget how many times, but these were the most amazing conversations, because these young people would talk about and this was without cell phones, without any digital media about who they are, what they’re about, how they understand each Other. You know what they do in terms of conflict? And they were, they were incredible. They were really incredible. And it wasn’t, it wasn’t therapy. It was just, you know, having conversations and kicking ideas around.

Khadijah 33:35

Yeah, we don’t there. There’s not enough again, we talked about the value and emphasis on modeling, but there’s also not enough emphasis placed on like, the value and peer, Peer, peer support and peer groups and because peers, like kids, want to hear from their peers like they are on the ground, like they get it. And so, I think they it’s, it’s, it’s often more meaningful. It weighs much heavier when it comes from someone who they really think gets it like often. I think young people think we’re too far removed like this, things that the way you did back then are no longer the case. And so, I think it doesn’t, doesn’t resonate for some kids in the same way that it would if they hear it from their peers, or someone’s or someone closer to them to their generation.

Gene 34:18

So, I think, I think, to wrap up, you know, it may be that, you know, we’re all mandated, at least in Massachusetts, to have social emotional learning modules in school. And even though most schools and we don’t know exactly how to put them together, although the Clay Center has done one on conflict resolution and one on loneliness, and we’re trying to get there. The whole notion of social emotional learning and having conversations that are open and candid help prepare the way, hopefully they’ll be translated into the digital world. I mean it, I don’t think it’s big. Leap to go from those kinds of conversations to how you behave using, you know, a cell phone or an iPad. Maybe that’s just my hope or my wish, but let’s hope for the best.

Khadijah 35:16

We have to teach them these things, like, just like we can’t expect them to automatically know, like what a healthy relationship looks like and what an unhealthy relationship looks like. We can’t expect them to automatically know, you know what safe behavior is online, or what, what, what online etiquette should look like, how they should govern themselves. And again, some kids can often pick up the pieces over time. But it would just be much easier if we just kind of would give them the information, as opposed to hoping that they gather it over time and put the pieces together for sure.

Gene 35:48

You know, just one other thing, and this is going to take us on a tangent that maybe another podcast for another, another, another. You know, eon from now, but you know, there’s a lot of series on TV that that naturally involve relationships and kids are watching, we’re watching as adults and what, how do we interpret or understand? I’m thinking of like, 13 Reasons why. As an example,

Khadijah 36:19

I was thinking completely differently. I’m thinking of those reality shows where people have these big reactions and these over-the-top emotions and often a lot of likes, unhealthy dynamics. Okay, so we had two, two different thought processes going on.

Gene 36:37

Well, they’re both, they’re both, they’re both unhealthy. I mean, but, but, but they’re dramatic, and they’re intended to be dramatic. And then the question is, how do kids and

[OUTRO MUSIC BEGINS]

how do we as adults process these, these over the top, dramatic, you know, relationships that we see on TV that actually become models for us, and so that that

Khadijah 37:06

we should think about that for another podcast, that’s a good one. I like that.

Gene 37:09

Okay, so for all of you at home, if you’ve liked her today or want to consider, you may want to consider leaving us a review or comments about things and as always, we hope our conversation will help you have yours. I’m Gene Beresin

Khadijah 37:45

and I’m Khadijah Booth Watkins. Until next time.

[OUTRO MUSIC ENDS]

Episode music by Gene Beresin

Episode produced by Spenser Egnatz